The case of Macedonia makes me think about the fairness of Russia’s name
by Prudent-Title-9161
The case of Macedonia makes me think about the fairness of Russia’s name
by Prudent-Title-9161
40 Comments
Transrussia?
The difference is that macedonia is the name of the region while russia/kyevan rus is an ethnic group
I love name Kyivan Rus from moscow history “researcher”. What is other Rus’ then
1. picture above shows Roman-established “Macedonia” region not ancient Macedonia.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/eb/Macedonia_overview.svg/960px-Macedonia_overview.svg.png
2. Russia doesn’t “claim” Greek history.
(let alone apply that claim to imply that Greek territory belongs to them).
regardless, the recent agreement got rid of all these delusional “claims” of North Macedonia.
Macedonia got smaller while Russia got bigger, you can’t apply the same method
Because North Macedonia is Slavic, not Hellenic while Russia is indeed Rus.
Hispania was also the name of the whole Iberian Peninsula and Spain appropriated it for them even though they don’t own all of the peninsula
Wait… you have the region of Macedon in blue, which is not that much about people as about historical geography
AND what looks like map of ethnic East Slavic area? Logically it should be East Slavia like Yugoslavia (Yug mean South)
Gee I wonder what the center of the Kyivan Rus is.
Rus points back to Scandanavian longboats and means to row.
Russia is cosplaying as Kyiv ever since.
“Ah shit, here we go again.”
Just in case this get locked. Also, comment flooded with Putin’s ball licker and Russian bots
Muscovy?
It’s actually been the moscow kingdom or just muscovy until Peter I(idk how he’s called in english) – he then proceeded to steal the name of Rus and modernized it into “russia” in order to connect it with broader history and have “legitimate” base to create the empire
It’s because North Macedonia is a new state formed in 1991. Before that it was a region in Yugoslavia (even if it was called Macedonia, it encompassed the Northeastern part of the broader geographical region known as Macedonia). Before that? It was a province in the Ottoman Empire. Before that? It was a contested region between Medieval Serbia and Bulgaria. Before that it was Byzantine. Before that it was Roman. Before that it was contested betweeb Thracian Tribes and the Greeks. It was the heartland of the Macedonian dynasty and the short-lived empire of Alexander the Great.
It’s called North Macedonia today because Greece took great offence in the name Macedonia. Greece still controlls South Macedonia which encompass, among other things, the whole Halkidiki peninsula.
Needs to be called Muscovy. Nothing more
Ukraine should be the one to claim the name Russia. If they were stronger militarly, politically, and economically than Russia, maybe they could force them to rename to “East Russia” or “Muscovy”.
Bad comparison, Luxembourg is better
All the borders from Medieval or Ancient era are utter and complete nonsense
To begin with, Russia first appeared as a tribe in Novgorod. This is the territory of modern Russia) From there, Prince Rurik of Rus set out to conquer Kiev and other cities. After that, he settled in Kiev and began to reign there. Then the descendants of Rurik began to spread to other places. In particular, to the east, having founded Vladimir, Suzdal, Ryazan. They all considered themselves Russians. The name “Kievan Rus” is just a scientific term. They didn’t call themselves that. And if anything, the Slavic tribe of the Polans lived in Kiev, not Rus. Under Andrei Bogolyubsky, power shifted to Vladimir. Although Kiev remained the largest and richest city, it was ruled by princes from other principalities. The same Vladimirsky. Then the Mongols almost completely destroyed Kiev, the center of power moved to Novgorod and Vladimir – Vladimir Rus, which included Moscow, gradually gained strength, subjugating other principalities. It was ruled by Rurik’s direct ancestor. The last of them was Ivan the Terrible.
Well, it all started in Novgorod, and Russia is currently controlling it, so…
This “Macedonia” in the map is the former Ottoman province which is also in use today. The original Macedonian kingdom was almost in its entirety within Greece (before its expansions).
Russia is not really a country in a unified sense. It only really started existing after the collapse of the Golden Horde and as it exists today, it’s a very loose connection of cultures which have no reason being all part of the same country. Sure, the western part where 90% of the population, but the rest of it should be divided into separate independent nations.
“Kievan” Rus
which suggests there were Rus that were not Kievan
I think Ukraine/Kyiv should get all the territory of Kyivan Rus’ back.
call it Rossiya, that’s not only how it’s officially called, but also valid as you can claim it’s phonetically different from Russia (which is inaccurate)
Basically the thing with Macedonia is more heritage linked rather than purely geographical. The ancient Macedonians were a Greek subgroup. The modern Greek region of Macedonia exists which was part of ancient Macedonia. North Macedonia is also a part ancient Macedonia but its people are not ethically Greek. So Greeks are like
“Hey guys, you can’t name your country Macedonia while you’re unrelated with ancient Macedonia ethnically and a whole Greek Macedonia which is an “offspring” of ancient Macedonia exists. It’s like you’re kinda trying to claim our history for your own. Call it something which includes Macedonia but change it a little”
I personally as a Greek idgaf what anyone names their country, but that’s what more patriotic Greeks think.
Mongolia
Oh boy, East Slavic nationalist chauvinism incoming. Can’t wait to hear who the *real* successor to the Rus’ is, as if they don’t all equally have a claim.
Rus probably means Rower. Read River Kings by Cat Jarman. The Kieven Rowers.
I would like it will be one of the bargains point in the far-far future, when some west parts of nowadays russia would want to apply for EU membership or something like that and Ukraine will put one of the demands to rename (if they still will call themselves russia and russians). Otherwise we can’t really pressure country to change their name, only to change it official name in your language
Ruś, it’s from name of land, same with Poland, on our teritory lived poles, which were just people who were from small area, but they united more and more people from this are.
From my understanding, “Kyivan” was never actually part of the states’ name, it was called just Rus at the time.
Duh
They were called Moskovia until 16th century. They stole the name to give themselves legitimacy.
Is not remotely the same, Muscovy was founded by settlers from Kyiv and other Rus principalities, they are related. The Slavs in North Macedonia just share part of the territory Ancient Macedonia did. In fact, most of Ancient Macedonia is still in Greece and it barely reached North Macedonia. One can even argue people in the Middle Ages made a mistake to include North Macedonia with the Greek Macedonia
Fattassania?
Bulgaria
For Macedonia this is the geographical area, despite the ethnicity. Same can apply for Thrace and Epirus. It transcends modern borders. As for Russia, this was the initial kingdom of the Kievan Rus that latter in for expanded and assimilated various other kingdoms and peoples.
Note that the area of Modern Greece, Albania, Macedonia, Bulgaria and Turkey was known in the Middle Ages as Rhomania, the land of the Romans. Up until the 20th century many Greeks called themselves Rhomioi (Romans).
History and geography are very fun if you dive deep into it.
russia and middle age rus’ is like Romania and roman empire
Moscow?
Technically Great Russia, Megale Rhossia, as in the part of Russia furthest away from Constantinople.
Compared to Little Russia, Mikra Rhossia, what’s now Ukraine, the part of Russia closest to Constantinople.