Fuck that genocidal empire, and their run off genocidal spawn like Attaturk.
Dare_Soft on
They will still somehow defeat the British, French, Greeks and Armenians during the Turkish revolution
acariux on
They actually had so many political and economic reforms during the 19th century, built a relatively modern military (compared to the old one) and they kept the empire alive via alliances and diplomacy despite the lack of military strength.
They held elections and opened up a parliament not much later than the European powers. Made the first state budget, modernized tax code, codified basic rights and citizenship, established modern education etc etc. All in the 19th century. There were still HUGE problems but more progress was made in the 19th than in the previous three centuries.
Joining WW1 was the death blow to all though, which is not surprising, since it collapsed 3 other empires too.
123pussyslayer123 on
When you don’t have a good economy, you can neither win battles nor have reforms. Staying out of the new economic order dooms you to fuck up and dismantle. It’s no big surprise tbh.
McGillis_is_a_Char on
It is kind of hard to reform the economy when Russia invaded every ten years and the government had to subsidize hundreds of thousands of refugees after every ethnic uprising. And most of their rich regions either became their own countries or colonies for a European rival. Then when the European banks lent money it was always at credit card company rates.
When it comes to democratic reforms, usually when a multiethnic empire tries to reform into a system of equal rights and responsibilities they get fucked from both sides. They find poor members of the dominant majority angry that the only power that they had is being taken away, and the rich members of minority groups trying to buy their way out of the responsibilities. Then you have traditional power brokers in minority groups fighting against reforms that would create rival power bases in their community.
When it comes to military quality that is some more traditional power group vs reform group friction stuff.
ur-mom-gay-lolol on
The Ottoman Empire was cooked as soon as the Greeks won their war for independence. In such an ethnically diverse empire as them, when minorities are successfully revolting, it’ll create a domino effect.
8 Comments
And the lack of success was blamed on minorities.
[deleted]
Fuck that genocidal empire, and their run off genocidal spawn like Attaturk.
They will still somehow defeat the British, French, Greeks and Armenians during the Turkish revolution
They actually had so many political and economic reforms during the 19th century, built a relatively modern military (compared to the old one) and they kept the empire alive via alliances and diplomacy despite the lack of military strength.
They held elections and opened up a parliament not much later than the European powers. Made the first state budget, modernized tax code, codified basic rights and citizenship, established modern education etc etc. All in the 19th century. There were still HUGE problems but more progress was made in the 19th than in the previous three centuries.
Joining WW1 was the death blow to all though, which is not surprising, since it collapsed 3 other empires too.
When you don’t have a good economy, you can neither win battles nor have reforms. Staying out of the new economic order dooms you to fuck up and dismantle. It’s no big surprise tbh.
It is kind of hard to reform the economy when Russia invaded every ten years and the government had to subsidize hundreds of thousands of refugees after every ethnic uprising. And most of their rich regions either became their own countries or colonies for a European rival. Then when the European banks lent money it was always at credit card company rates.
When it comes to democratic reforms, usually when a multiethnic empire tries to reform into a system of equal rights and responsibilities they get fucked from both sides. They find poor members of the dominant majority angry that the only power that they had is being taken away, and the rich members of minority groups trying to buy their way out of the responsibilities. Then you have traditional power brokers in minority groups fighting against reforms that would create rival power bases in their community.
When it comes to military quality that is some more traditional power group vs reform group friction stuff.
The Ottoman Empire was cooked as soon as the Greeks won their war for independence. In such an ethnically diverse empire as them, when minorities are successfully revolting, it’ll create a domino effect.