Surprise surprise. Living next to a large body of non moving water is a terrible idea in the summer
robotnique on
Well yeah. Having a bunch of stagnant water outside of a cistern isn’t a great idea and also where you going to source the water from if you don’t have a natural supply?
Obviously there were water filled moats on occasion for certain riverine fortresses.
Angel_OfSolitude on
Filling them with water sounds really cool but comes with many downsides in practice. So unless you’ve got a flowing source to keep the wafter cycling, just don’t.
Choice_Plantain_ on
Tbf that steep ass ravine would still be pretty effective in stopping an army from attacking my tower.
asiannumber4 on
Tf is going on in the first picture where the bridge going?
Ogarrr on
Roel Konijnendijk intensifies.
ParshendiOfRhuidean on
Source for the image on the left?
tralalalala2 on
IIRC, dry moats sometimes had the possibility to be filled with water if needed.
Olipaone on
Olavi castle is on some rocks middle of an lake. Does that count?
Crazy_names on
NGL, I would hate having to try to run through that ditch with a sword and armor while being shot at with arrows and crossbow and rocks.
Talonsminty on
Shoutout to Keniworth castle that had a moat fed by natural waters and was converted in the Elizabethan era to a boat lake.
okram2k on
you certainly do see castles throughout history using water for defenses, almost exclusively because they were built in a place with water features already around and incorporated the natural environment into the defense. A very common tactic any time you build foritifcations.
JediLincoln14 on
And then there are the towns/castles that use natural bodies of water as fortifications.
FatalLaughter on
Was there a need to use AI for the “movies” image? I’m sure there are plenty of movies that would have made your point
GrinningPariah on
I think that left image is AI? The bridge kinda goes nowhere and the reflection doesn’t quite match what’s above water.
Anyway there absolutely were medieval castles with moats like that, they weren’t even rare. Look at the wikipedia article for [water castle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_castle), there’s dozens of examples.
WilliamthePious on
I remember first playing Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 and I was kind of confused with most of the castles. I thought to myself “this tiny thing is a castle.”
My American brain could barely comprehend it but yup most castles are tiny compared to the movies with exceptions.
When you think of a castle the likes of Dover Castle and some of those Crusader Castles in the Levant come to mind.
Martydi on
If it’s so common in movies, why didn’t you use one of them to illustrate your point instead of AI slop?
Thomppa26 on
What in the AI slop is that other picture…
Additional-Sky-7436 on
That ditch is just as effective as the one filled will water, maybe more effective.
Er… no they are ditches today because of comphrensive drainage works occurring in the hundreds of years since the castles were built. The way the world is now is because of reclaimed farmland being a priority over marsh or swampland.
mining_moron on
Might the second picture not look like the first after it rains?
Pizzawarrior96 on
Well, building a castle on top of a steep hill is simply superior. But water castles absolutely existed in places without suitable hills but closeby rivers or lakes. There’s one still standing just 20 minutes away from where I live!
Dark_Sytze on
Netherlands and Denmark disagree, Belgium as well to some extent. I think I know more so called “water castles” than dry ones.
Plzlaw4me on
I mean… yeah. They basically just threw their poop off castle walls. Putting that into non-moving water in the summer is going to result in the local lord being elevated to a deamon prince of Nurgle.
vulvelion on
Well there was rain water and wooden made spearshaped obstacles, and natural obstacles – like they were not cutting the grass.
Thats enough to slowdown human, animal, or mechanism movement.
Hetros_Jistin on
yeah, one you’d flood when the enemy came by so they’d have a harder time figuring out that you put spikes (now covered in shit-filled water) under the water. It would also make it MUCH harder to undermine the castle because your tunnels would flood from the flooded ditches.
Naive_Mongoose_5453 on
I mean a 12 foot drop followed by a steep 12 foot climb leading up to a 16 foot wall is still a pretty substantial obstacle.
GeneralEi on
Water is pretty, but a muddy ditch filled with other undesirable stuff makes a much better defence against dudes in armour.
WW1 would have been depicted differently if no man’s land was all scenic ponds instead of mudhell feat. Wire
TheComplimentarian on
They flooded them when they needed to. That was the whole point, not to live in Mosquitoville 24/7.
30 Comments
Surprise surprise. Living next to a large body of non moving water is a terrible idea in the summer
Well yeah. Having a bunch of stagnant water outside of a cistern isn’t a great idea and also where you going to source the water from if you don’t have a natural supply?
Obviously there were water filled moats on occasion for certain riverine fortresses.
Filling them with water sounds really cool but comes with many downsides in practice. So unless you’ve got a flowing source to keep the wafter cycling, just don’t.
Tbf that steep ass ravine would still be pretty effective in stopping an army from attacking my tower.
Tf is going on in the first picture where the bridge going?
Roel Konijnendijk intensifies.
Source for the image on the left?
IIRC, dry moats sometimes had the possibility to be filled with water if needed.
Olavi castle is on some rocks middle of an lake. Does that count?
NGL, I would hate having to try to run through that ditch with a sword and armor while being shot at with arrows and crossbow and rocks.
Shoutout to Keniworth castle that had a moat fed by natural waters and was converted in the Elizabethan era to a boat lake.
you certainly do see castles throughout history using water for defenses, almost exclusively because they were built in a place with water features already around and incorporated the natural environment into the defense. A very common tactic any time you build foritifcations.
And then there are the towns/castles that use natural bodies of water as fortifications.
Was there a need to use AI for the “movies” image? I’m sure there are plenty of movies that would have made your point
I think that left image is AI? The bridge kinda goes nowhere and the reflection doesn’t quite match what’s above water.
Anyway there absolutely were medieval castles with moats like that, they weren’t even rare. Look at the wikipedia article for [water castle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_castle), there’s dozens of examples.
I remember first playing Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 and I was kind of confused with most of the castles. I thought to myself “this tiny thing is a castle.”
My American brain could barely comprehend it but yup most castles are tiny compared to the movies with exceptions.
When you think of a castle the likes of Dover Castle and some of those Crusader Castles in the Levant come to mind.
If it’s so common in movies, why didn’t you use one of them to illustrate your point instead of AI slop?
What in the AI slop is that other picture…
That ditch is just as effective as the one filled will water, maybe more effective.
[Caerphilly ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caerphilly_Castle) [Beaumaris](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaumaris_Castle) and [Caerlaverock ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caerlaverock_Castle) castles disagree.
Er… no they are ditches today because of comphrensive drainage works occurring in the hundreds of years since the castles were built. The way the world is now is because of reclaimed farmland being a priority over marsh or swampland.
Might the second picture not look like the first after it rains?
Well, building a castle on top of a steep hill is simply superior. But water castles absolutely existed in places without suitable hills but closeby rivers or lakes. There’s one still standing just 20 minutes away from where I live!
Netherlands and Denmark disagree, Belgium as well to some extent. I think I know more so called “water castles” than dry ones.
I mean… yeah. They basically just threw their poop off castle walls. Putting that into non-moving water in the summer is going to result in the local lord being elevated to a deamon prince of Nurgle.
Well there was rain water and wooden made spearshaped obstacles, and natural obstacles – like they were not cutting the grass.
Thats enough to slowdown human, animal, or mechanism movement.
yeah, one you’d flood when the enemy came by so they’d have a harder time figuring out that you put spikes (now covered in shit-filled water) under the water. It would also make it MUCH harder to undermine the castle because your tunnels would flood from the flooded ditches.
I mean a 12 foot drop followed by a steep 12 foot climb leading up to a 16 foot wall is still a pretty substantial obstacle.
Water is pretty, but a muddy ditch filled with other undesirable stuff makes a much better defence against dudes in armour.
WW1 would have been depicted differently if no man’s land was all scenic ponds instead of mudhell feat. Wire
They flooded them when they needed to. That was the whole point, not to live in Mosquitoville 24/7.