I guess you are factoring in the Roman occupation which lead to the byzantine empire…but during byzantine years the empire was more hellenic than it was Roman
TraditionalShake4730 on
How did you get it to 1675 Years
No-Effective388 on
The Eastern Roman empire was Hellenic after the 4th crusade.
Key_Arrival2927 on
123*
yap2102x on
israel which returned 2000 years
myeye95 on
What happened in the year (AD) 146? Definitely not Greece loosing independence.
Edit: Southern Greece becoame a Roman province in 146 BC not AD. It was 1966 years before formation of modern Greece.
ZhenXiaoMing on
Poland existed as Congress Poland, Greece never even got that
Grzechoooo on
*123
Because if we’re counting the German puppet, we should count the Russian and French ones as well.
Nakain on
1821 – 1453 = 368, not 1675
Own_Watercress_8104 on
Greece never “returned”, there is almost no correlation between classical Greece and the modern Greek state, outside of geography.
That’s like saying the Roman Empire returned because Italy exists as a geopolitical entity
TeaRex14 on
Meme format used wrong
jorgespinosa on
Well, Greece didn’t exist as a unified state in antiquity, and it could be argued that it was the first time there was Greek nation, unlike Poland.
morrikai on
Rome conquered Greece 146 BC not 146 AD. It should be 1976 and not 1675.
And yes I know it is ongoing debate in the comments about Eastern rome being hellenetic
no8airbag on
germany paying 350 billion of greece debt, while…polish nationalists asking in vain 4 reparations
BasedAustralhungary on
Considering somehow the Hellás city states and later kingdoms from Macedonian heritage (an heritage that the people of the region defined as ‘barbaroi’, which means foreigner and makes it obvious that they didn’t see themselves in the same group as the Macedonian people) as a nation that got to disappear and then got their independence back like they were the same people following a common path is absurd.
I won’t get into the fact that there were other states from clearly greek nature, as people talk about Byzantium I’d like to point that the hellenic nature of the kingdom don’t mean they related themselve to that heritage. The process of hellenization started during the late Republic and was over to become that important because the heartland of Byzantium after the loses of Syria and Egypt was Greek. I’d like to be more niche and point to the Mani people, which were basically independent during the whole Modern Ages and were very important during the independence. Venice also stopped holding direct rule over some of the territory they had in the Aegean and they stablished protectorates (which are ‘de iure’ states with a limited sovereignty). Now I will proceed to drop the bomb: the Ottomans. The Ottoman Empire was very hellenized and the Orthodox structure was very much preserved and even protected more than any Dhimmi institution in the empire, the patriarchs held a lot of authority and were usually consulted by the Sultan. The education was in Greek and Arab, the institutions that they created to manage their vaste empire were from Greek and Iranian origin. They were, in a certain degree, a hellenic nation.
As you can see you can’t trace the legacy of the nation-state of Greek to the old Hellás as much as you can’t do directly to any of those countries. Culture is not something that remains static in time, they evolve and change while adapting, sometimes they are assimilated and sometimes they assimilate but not strictly by through force and government intentions but just by the sheer pass of time.
Poland is another case because the Polish people had a kingdom in the Modern Ages hence they certainly had that national identity really strengthen by the times of Enlightenment, there was an intellectual movement tracing to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and while it’s obvious the culture changed you can trace a proper line between that and their independence because they share the time period and political philosophy.
That doesn’t mean that one nation is older than other or that one nation is better than other, it means that we have to stop projecting our national identity to the past seeking for glory and a national myth and not for the origins of the structures that give a meaning to the countries that exist today and their singular identities and circunstances. Nationalism seek to construct the past through the present and it’s very dangerous. I obviously think that OP isn’t a nationalist itself but that he got some dubious information based on the metanarratives that distort the history. I think that there will be people there trying to say that this is something of the Balkans and laught at their very expresions of nationalism, but it’s not something exclusive to them. Here in Spain you listen to people making claims such as ‘Spain is the oldest nation of Europe, it’s 5000 y.o.’ under the logic that a nation start existing from the moment they are conceived by a foreign people and since the Phoenicians named the region (Shphanim. They say they named it because of the rabbits but it’s a lie, they saw rabbits and thought they were hyraxes. They didn’t saw a rabbit until then) but that’s just a straight up lie. We have to take back nuance and cold-minded investigation to the political study of the nation-states and take the myths and the nationalistic claims out of the issue.
18 Comments
I guess you are factoring in the Roman occupation which lead to the byzantine empire…but during byzantine years the empire was more hellenic than it was Roman
How did you get it to 1675 Years
The Eastern Roman empire was Hellenic after the 4th crusade.
123*
israel which returned 2000 years
What happened in the year (AD) 146? Definitely not Greece loosing independence.
Edit: Southern Greece becoame a Roman province in 146 BC not AD. It was 1966 years before formation of modern Greece.
Poland existed as Congress Poland, Greece never even got that
*123
Because if we’re counting the German puppet, we should count the Russian and French ones as well.
1821 – 1453 = 368, not 1675
Greece never “returned”, there is almost no correlation between classical Greece and the modern Greek state, outside of geography.
That’s like saying the Roman Empire returned because Italy exists as a geopolitical entity
Meme format used wrong
Well, Greece didn’t exist as a unified state in antiquity, and it could be argued that it was the first time there was Greek nation, unlike Poland.
Rome conquered Greece 146 BC not 146 AD. It should be 1976 and not 1675.
And yes I know it is ongoing debate in the comments about Eastern rome being hellenetic
germany paying 350 billion of greece debt, while…polish nationalists asking in vain 4 reparations
Considering somehow the Hellás city states and later kingdoms from Macedonian heritage (an heritage that the people of the region defined as ‘barbaroi’, which means foreigner and makes it obvious that they didn’t see themselves in the same group as the Macedonian people) as a nation that got to disappear and then got their independence back like they were the same people following a common path is absurd.
I won’t get into the fact that there were other states from clearly greek nature, as people talk about Byzantium I’d like to point that the hellenic nature of the kingdom don’t mean they related themselve to that heritage. The process of hellenization started during the late Republic and was over to become that important because the heartland of Byzantium after the loses of Syria and Egypt was Greek. I’d like to be more niche and point to the Mani people, which were basically independent during the whole Modern Ages and were very important during the independence. Venice also stopped holding direct rule over some of the territory they had in the Aegean and they stablished protectorates (which are ‘de iure’ states with a limited sovereignty). Now I will proceed to drop the bomb: the Ottomans. The Ottoman Empire was very hellenized and the Orthodox structure was very much preserved and even protected more than any Dhimmi institution in the empire, the patriarchs held a lot of authority and were usually consulted by the Sultan. The education was in Greek and Arab, the institutions that they created to manage their vaste empire were from Greek and Iranian origin. They were, in a certain degree, a hellenic nation.
As you can see you can’t trace the legacy of the nation-state of Greek to the old Hellás as much as you can’t do directly to any of those countries. Culture is not something that remains static in time, they evolve and change while adapting, sometimes they are assimilated and sometimes they assimilate but not strictly by through force and government intentions but just by the sheer pass of time.
Poland is another case because the Polish people had a kingdom in the Modern Ages hence they certainly had that national identity really strengthen by the times of Enlightenment, there was an intellectual movement tracing to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and while it’s obvious the culture changed you can trace a proper line between that and their independence because they share the time period and political philosophy.
That doesn’t mean that one nation is older than other or that one nation is better than other, it means that we have to stop projecting our national identity to the past seeking for glory and a national myth and not for the origins of the structures that give a meaning to the countries that exist today and their singular identities and circunstances. Nationalism seek to construct the past through the present and it’s very dangerous. I obviously think that OP isn’t a nationalist itself but that he got some dubious information based on the metanarratives that distort the history. I think that there will be people there trying to say that this is something of the Balkans and laught at their very expresions of nationalism, but it’s not something exclusive to them. Here in Spain you listen to people making claims such as ‘Spain is the oldest nation of Europe, it’s 5000 y.o.’ under the logic that a nation start existing from the moment they are conceived by a foreign people and since the Phoenicians named the region (Shphanim. They say they named it because of the rabbits but it’s a lie, they saw rabbits and thought they were hyraxes. They didn’t saw a rabbit until then) but that’s just a straight up lie. We have to take back nuance and cold-minded investigation to the political study of the nation-states and take the myths and the nationalistic claims out of the issue.
The ottoman occupation lasted 375 years
67
Greece returned after 368 years.