The 20th century saw many socialist states run into economic stagnation under strict central planning.
In response, figures like Vladimir Lenin (NEP), Deng Xiaoping (Reform and Opening Up / 改革开放), and Nguyễn Văn Linh (Đổi Mới / renovation) reintroduced market mechanisms to stabilize and grow their economies.
by Actual-Stand5012
26 Comments
Economic calculation debate, over and over.
Honestly, the only type of socialism* I think could actually work is some kind of market syndicalism where the workers of each firm own the firm and compete in a market economy. But even then that isn’t real socialism because the means of production are not owned in common by everyone, just by the workers of that business.
*I differentiate between democratic socialism and social democracy, BTW.
This stuff never worked , they are just coping hard at this point in order not to be overthrown .
Somthing somthing late stage capitalism before communism for some reason you cant just start with communism
Confusing trade and capitalism ITT
Commies think they hate markets but the problem isn’t markets, the problem is scarcity. Markets are just exposing the bad news about the scarcity. Nationalize everything and you haven’t solved the scarcity problem, you’ve just hidden the bad news.
*Uncle Sam as the sickos “HAHA YES” guy looking through the window*
☭THEY☭ are coming
Only seems to work in small centralized communities where everybody knows each other. The human element is very present. You arent just taking advantage of or stealing from non distinct human #257668892 You are stealing from Ted who lives two doors down.
The moment any sort of dehumanization enters the mix everybody starts fucking each other over and suddenly the system is inefficient.
We are a very selfish species. We dont think of the collective, we think of the individual. Empathy doesn’t enter the mix until you truly know someone and associate them with your community.
We should be planning around that. Conceiving a system that revolves around and checks human greed and selfishness.
We arent ants. We will never be ants. So why are we making systems that require us to help and rely on one another like ants?
Capital has the ability to subsume all critiques into itself. Even those who would critique capital end up reinforcing it instead
– A video game which is part of capitalism like everything else.
In all seriousness, to have any form of functioning production or even internal trade you have to delegate some local responsibility to people with knowledge of supply and demand. The state doesn’t know what’s a small towns yearly toothpaste consumption is.
I will return to this meme in 2080 once the capital-fueled climate crisis has fully taken hold.
the indomitable human spirit of *COMMERCE*
When u skip capitalism to communism, history shows it doesn’t work out so far 🙁
Socialism lost any valid points left to me when I played minecraft with my friends (spoiler: people died)
I love how you “historians” never factor in the fact that there has never been one socialist nation that has been allowed to develop without extreme oppression from the already established, financially strong capitalist world. It’s a literal undeniable historical fact. It has had a massive negative impact on the ability of the countries to recover from the military actions that were required to overthrow the governments they were replacing. And it never fails that you “geniuses” refuse to take that into account in your “socialism never works” wankfests.
Also, Thanos is the literal villain that wanted to destroy the entire universe. It’s applicable, but are yall really this fucking stupid?
Communists address this argument all the time. Capitalism is the best system for growing the economy, but the economy can’t keep growing endlessly because of resource scarcity, and growing the economy usually requires inadequately compensating the vast majority of the population for their labor.
With that, countries that have not fully industrialized need some form of capitalism to reach a higher level of economic development. To prevent being stuck in and endless cycle of labor exploitation, profit, growth, and further economic inequality like liberal countries are, the form of capitalism they adopt needs to be managed by a state that’s ideologically communist, so that when the necessary material conditions (i.e. industrialization) are met, wealth can be redistributed and economic growth can start slowing down.
Ultimately, though, I’m just steel-manning here; there are many rebuttals against the USSR, PRC, and other communist states to be made in regards to this theory, but gross oversimplifications like this don’t really do anything to help the conversation around economics and politics.
some people have a hard time acknowledging china isn’t socialist. you can make a strong argument they’re social democratic with a super strong state but they aren’t socialist. you aren’t socialist if you have landlords, terrible labor right, and billionaires in your society. Cry me a river campist/authoritarian leftist.
Meanwhile “Capitalists” in the 2020s
>WAAAH CHINA IS BEATING US IN THE IN OUR OWN GAME GOVERNMENT PLEASE HEEEEELP
They should have gone with democratic socialist worker’s self-management.
Communism is like shower sex in that it sounds nice, gets messy quick, and I’ve never had it.
It was priced in.
… I mean so what you’re saying is that Capitalism will vanish after a billionaire uses his dying breath to wish it away?
North Korea trying to shut down the illegal markets that are the only thing actually allowing the people to get food and basic necessities reliably, so they quietly let them exist while still spouting the same nonsense.
It’s almost as if SOCIALISM DOESN’T WORK
I expect the Hungry Hammers to have a very normal reaction to this one.
Almost as if the progression from feudalism to capitalist to socialism is entirely a part of Marxist theory and none of this goes against Marxism.
Van Linh always favored a mixed Economy, its why he was removed from the party before the hurriedly brought him back in the mid 80s because they realized that Agrarian Communism didn’t work.