Trump is THE quintessential conservative. They own this. F*ck this retcon attempt.
nowhereman136 on
Trump is not conservative and the MAGA movements proves that most conservatives care more about their cult than they do actual conservative values.
But then again language is a fluid thing. If they all started calling themselves horses, then eventually the definition of “horse” will change to include both smelly idiot animals and equines
LittleBalloHate on
Its definitely not true literally, but I *do* think we’re in the middle of a realignment. I dont think the parties will fully flip like they did in the early 1900s, but it may be true by 2040 that neither party is strictly liberal/conservative any longer.
Yes, Trump is very culturally conservative: anti-feminist, racist, anti-trans, etc.
But consider this — what if I told you that one party is very defensive of America’s institutions, much more concerned about adherence to the constitution, and more emphatic about maintaining America’s position as the global leader, being respected and followed by the rest of the world?
You’d probably say that sounds like the conservative party, but that description definitely belongs to the Dems, now.
BaseHitToLeft on
I think you missed the point. Joe is saying that nothing this corrupt administration does aligns with traditional conservative values.
Traditional conservative values, such as:
Non-interventionist. (Oops, started an unnecessary war)
Smaller government (Oh darn, we put thugs on the street and created a government agency named after a meme to wreck shit)
Personal liberty (Well, we HAVE to see your kids’ genitals before they can enter this swim meet)
Strict adherence to the Constitution (We’ve never heard of posse comitatas and now the the 14th amendment to the Constitution is unconstitutional)
Not that “traditional conservatives” much held to their own values ever, but at least they kept up the facade
Talador12 on
21% of 2024 trump voters support his impeachment right now. There’s a larger % that dissaprove of him right now.
He should have zero percent support, but here we are
Pope_Dwayne_Johnson on
MAGA is not conservative. Resistance to change is not part of the MAGA movement – they are making rapid, unthought changes for the sake of their own goals. DOGE and the Iranian War are good examples.
They are a party of grift – making money and lowering personal risk is the only ideology.
PatSajaksDick on
Yeah the cult is always gonna rate itself highly, a better measurement is of those who don’t consider themselves in the cult anymore
GreyBeardEng on
Meanwhile in r conservative:
Story 1: Mexican born Kansas mayor votes illegally (several unpunished Republicans have done this).
Story 2: a meme about fraud in California lacking any actual info.
Story 3: a story praising Trump for delivering oil to Australia.
What do they even stand for?
conn_r2112 on
They aren’t conservative… the entire conservative movement in the US has been hijacked by illiberal authoritarians
Dcajunpimp on
You’re assuming that 90% is conservative.
Edit: True conservatives shouldn’t have to watch FOX News to get their daily talking points.
It’s like Jon Stewart’s recent bit where he questioned a panel of ‘Trumps’ with several Trump clips all giving different answers to the same questions.
That 90% is a cult that needs their daily update on what to believe so their buddies don’t call them Libs who get all their news from CNN, MSN, BBC, Neocons, RINOS etc..
marcusmosh on
Your title is weird. Are you offended that they are saying they aren’t real conservatives?
Lysol3435 on
I mean, the Trump admin is not conservative in a fiscal sense. They are spending like crazy just to keep him in power, keep people distracted, and most importantly keep money gushing up into his (and his friends’) pockets
There never was a good conservatism. It’s always been an evil philosophy cooked up by rich old men to protect their financial, sexual, and societal privileges.
Perezvon42 on
I think most Republicans in the Trump era do not match any reasonable definition of the word “conservative,” so 90% of Republicans approving of him doesn’t really prove anything.
Gnardude on
UJ/ U.S. voters are not well educated enough to truly grasp the left/right paradigm and how it relates to their government or society.
Apprehensive-Fun4181 on
*Conservatism is claiming you have a roadmap, by stealing from the uneven successes of liberal ideals, which have no roadmap.* – La Marche de la Democratie
Frank Wilhoit:
>Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: *There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.*
>*There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time.
>*For millenia, conservatism had no name, because no other model of polity had ever been proposed. “The king can do no wrong.” In practice, this immunity was always extended to the king’s friends, however fungible a group they might have been. Today, we still have the king’s friends even where there is no king (dictator, etc.). Another way to look at this is that the king is a faction, rather than an individual.*
>*As the core proposition of conservatism is indefensible if stated baldly, it has always been surrounded by an elaborate backwash of pseudophilosophy, amounting over time to millions of pages. All such is axiomatically dishonest and undeserving of serious scrutiny. Today, the accelerating de-education of humanity has reached a point where the market for pseudophilosophy is vanishing; it is, as The Kids Say These Days, tl;dr . All that is left is the core proposition itself — backed up, no longer by misdirection and sophistry, but by violence.*
>*So this tells us what anti-conservatism must be: the proposition that the law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone, and cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.*
**Liberals**
Where do these liberals meet? Who is their leader? What are their goals? None of that exists, there no structure to this noun, so this is a mythical group in our head. The radicals and conservatives need a scapegoat for their friend who disagrees. The journalist doesn’t think, he abuses language, while everything must be labeled, even if he doesn’t understand.
“Surely somebody must be in charge here, I’m going to blame the Liberals”. That’s not how language works. *That’s not how freedom works.* The only way to use that noun, that way, is if it’s a formal group with goals and actions. Well, there nothing keeping local politicians from being drunks like their constituents.*
*Liberalism is defined by reality within the realm of freedom, representation, fairness and reason. It does not declare exactly what all of that should be. Such hubris is not within it, it does not carry the logic stain of Marx. It can only be abused by human hubris. No matter what, we are fighting the imperfections of humanity. Liberalism does not pretend to fix any of that. It just says go to the doctor, or let’s sit down and figure out what’s the problem. Unlike communism, implicit to liberalism is that the nature of the world comes from the nature of the world. That’s why there’s no liberal engineering, but liberalism requires engineering.*
1970’s, French, from a translation in progress
houstonyoureaproblem on
No, that presumes Republicans are conservative.
They aren’t.
They don’t care about protecting institutions or traditions. They want to tear them down and reorder things as they see fit.
That’s regressive. It’s authoritarian. But it’s definitely not conservative.
RainCityRogue on
Conservatism is about fewer people holding the reins of power. Trump is authoritarian which is pure conservatism.
j____b____ on
Republicans are not conservative. They are radicals bent on tearing down the system. The only thing they are conserving is the racism parts.
D-Rich-88 on
Anytime one of them actually does decide to criticize him: “well you know, he was always a registered democrat…”
Oh so now that’s a problem to yall? Lol
jcooli09 on
Republicans aren’t conservatives anymore, they just call themselves that. They are right wing radicals
Own-Art-7037 on
i guess irony is the only real tradition
MennReddit on
Whats’all this yapping about? US had voted for the guy and you’re discussing whether he’s a republican or not?
That REALLY shows the stupidity of Americans.
GadreelsSword on
A political party which is devoid of values, by definition cannot have conservative values.
Mo-shen on
Yeah it’s because they are not conservatives. They have a few similarities a but also some drastic difference.
For example actual consertive means no religion in government.
To understand the current right wing today it’s much better to say they are anti liberal. They are against democracy, they are pro theocracy, and they tend to not really have anything they support other than just being against anyone who is a liberal is for. They just say they like x so out platform is the opposite.
Oldiebones on
If you use the dictionary definition of conservative then no, Trump is not a real conservative.
Op seems to be making the argument that a real conservative is whatever Trump happens to be on any given day, as if conservativism is something flexible that changes based on the whims of one dementia-addled geriatric chronic liar. “No wars except oops a new forever war!” “Great new healthcare plan in 2 weeks except oops it’s never.” “The people don’t pay the tariffs, except oops we’re giving out tariff refund checks, except oops no we need that money for new wars we said we wouldn’t start.”
Op is your argument that modern conservativism is dead because it has no clear values? That its values change daily based on what a malignant narcissist tweeted at 4AM?
SomewhatAwkward21 on
If you ever put support ratings that high it says enough about your actual numbers
olcrazypete on
Conservative policy has never been popular. When it was Reagan and Bush era conservatives they used hate and racism to get elected and winked and nodded at that hateful base just enough to keep them happy while cutting taxes and services and enriching corporations.
Trump is wildly popular because the base never wanted conservative policy. They wanted the other part that was always the sweetener – the bigotry and hate against the other.
JoeBiden-2016 on
Reminder that Joe was a Republican representative and pretty involved in the Clinton impeachment. And reminder that the Clinton impeachment was largely manufactured by the Republican House of Representatives (Gingrich in particular).
UncleMalky on
I think we can extend the quote that if conservatives cannot win via democracy they will abandon democracy in favor of conservatism to be that if they then have to choose between conservatism and power they will choose power.
troveofcatastrophe on
New Conservatives are “Social Conservatives” only. The anti-woke brigade. The Jesus was too empathetic gang. The Haitians are eating the cats & dogs bbq boys. The Pope is weak on crime bros.
The “Let’s see how much we can ballon the deficit and how quickly” armchair economists. The schools are trans-ing our kids internet surgeons. The fraud & abuse only counts towards gov workers and social programs, not the executive branch and oligarchs, accountants…….
Writerhaha on
Yup.
“I’m not conservative, but I’m not MAGA” when he’s got 90% approval from conservatives, is bullshit and never let them forget it.
anonareyouokay on
From what I can tell, the Republican platform is to give tax cuts to the rich so they can have sex with children.
twilight-actual on
What is a “real” conservative?
Conservatism is nothing more than an attempt to institutionalize bigotry, and enforce in-group vs other.
Nothing more.
Conservatism isn’t fiscal discipline. It’s never been about “family values”. It’s never been about keeping order through diplomacy and rational behavior, aka national security. And there’s nothing religious, especially nothing Christian, about Conservative policy or behavior.
Conservatism has always dug into the trash can of irrational fear to find the gems that can be used to divide us and distract us so that power may be seized.
That’s it.
LordNemissary on
Neither Trump or MAGA have ever been conservative. It’s just a cult of personality that will change its policy to whatever the leader’s demented brain thinks that day.
Sartres_Roommate on
Conservatives are real good about starting wars….finishing them? “That’s hard”
Brianocracy on
Modern Conservatism is a hollow shell of a philosophy.
It’s only consistent principle is owning the libs
inlandviews on
Massive increase in public debt. A new war to fast track tax payer revenue to arms manufacturers. Inflation increasing and economy slowing. Everyone else including their sinks are to blame. Dunning Kruger affect on full display. Seems pretty conservative to me.
princealigorna on
It’s down to 68% last time I checked,
As for rather Trump is a real conservative? Well, he certainly ain’t no Buckley or Goldwater, let alone an Edmund Burke, He courts the Reagan crowd and has duped a lot of them, but I’m not even sure he fits that mold
41 Comments
Trump is THE quintessential conservative. They own this. F*ck this retcon attempt.
Trump is not conservative and the MAGA movements proves that most conservatives care more about their cult than they do actual conservative values.
But then again language is a fluid thing. If they all started calling themselves horses, then eventually the definition of “horse” will change to include both smelly idiot animals and equines
Its definitely not true literally, but I *do* think we’re in the middle of a realignment. I dont think the parties will fully flip like they did in the early 1900s, but it may be true by 2040 that neither party is strictly liberal/conservative any longer.
Yes, Trump is very culturally conservative: anti-feminist, racist, anti-trans, etc.
But consider this — what if I told you that one party is very defensive of America’s institutions, much more concerned about adherence to the constitution, and more emphatic about maintaining America’s position as the global leader, being respected and followed by the rest of the world?
You’d probably say that sounds like the conservative party, but that description definitely belongs to the Dems, now.
I think you missed the point. Joe is saying that nothing this corrupt administration does aligns with traditional conservative values.
Traditional conservative values, such as:
Non-interventionist. (Oops, started an unnecessary war)
Smaller government (Oh darn, we put thugs on the street and created a government agency named after a meme to wreck shit)
Personal liberty (Well, we HAVE to see your kids’ genitals before they can enter this swim meet)
Strict adherence to the Constitution (We’ve never heard of posse comitatas and now the the 14th amendment to the Constitution is unconstitutional)
Not that “traditional conservatives” much held to their own values ever, but at least they kept up the facade
21% of 2024 trump voters support his impeachment right now. There’s a larger % that dissaprove of him right now.
He should have zero percent support, but here we are
MAGA is not conservative. Resistance to change is not part of the MAGA movement – they are making rapid, unthought changes for the sake of their own goals. DOGE and the Iranian War are good examples.
They are a party of grift – making money and lowering personal risk is the only ideology.
Yeah the cult is always gonna rate itself highly, a better measurement is of those who don’t consider themselves in the cult anymore
Meanwhile in r conservative:
Story 1: Mexican born Kansas mayor votes illegally (several unpunished Republicans have done this).
Story 2: a meme about fraud in California lacking any actual info.
Story 3: a story praising Trump for delivering oil to Australia.
What do they even stand for?
They aren’t conservative… the entire conservative movement in the US has been hijacked by illiberal authoritarians
You’re assuming that 90% is conservative.
Edit: True conservatives shouldn’t have to watch FOX News to get their daily talking points.
It’s like Jon Stewart’s recent bit where he questioned a panel of ‘Trumps’ with several Trump clips all giving different answers to the same questions.
That 90% is a cult that needs their daily update on what to believe so their buddies don’t call them Libs who get all their news from CNN, MSN, BBC, Neocons, RINOS etc..
Your title is weird. Are you offended that they are saying they aren’t real conservatives?
I mean, the Trump admin is not conservative in a fiscal sense. They are spending like crazy just to keep him in power, keep people distracted, and most importantly keep money gushing up into his (and his friends’) pockets
https://preview.redd.it/bt8ucp20icxg1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a901a1ecf0a745a18ba163f4a13989f72965ee24
“Fellow conservative”
There never was a good conservatism. It’s always been an evil philosophy cooked up by rich old men to protect their financial, sexual, and societal privileges.
I think most Republicans in the Trump era do not match any reasonable definition of the word “conservative,” so 90% of Republicans approving of him doesn’t really prove anything.
UJ/ U.S. voters are not well educated enough to truly grasp the left/right paradigm and how it relates to their government or society.
*Conservatism is claiming you have a roadmap, by stealing from the uneven successes of liberal ideals, which have no roadmap.* – La Marche de la Democratie
Frank Wilhoit:
>Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: *There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.*
>*There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time.
>*For millenia, conservatism had no name, because no other model of polity had ever been proposed. “The king can do no wrong.” In practice, this immunity was always extended to the king’s friends, however fungible a group they might have been. Today, we still have the king’s friends even where there is no king (dictator, etc.). Another way to look at this is that the king is a faction, rather than an individual.*
>*As the core proposition of conservatism is indefensible if stated baldly, it has always been surrounded by an elaborate backwash of pseudophilosophy, amounting over time to millions of pages. All such is axiomatically dishonest and undeserving of serious scrutiny. Today, the accelerating de-education of humanity has reached a point where the market for pseudophilosophy is vanishing; it is, as The Kids Say These Days, tl;dr . All that is left is the core proposition itself — backed up, no longer by misdirection and sophistry, but by violence.*
>*So this tells us what anti-conservatism must be: the proposition that the law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone, and cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.*
**Liberals**
Where do these liberals meet? Who is their leader? What are their goals? None of that exists, there no structure to this noun, so this is a mythical group in our head. The radicals and conservatives need a scapegoat for their friend who disagrees. The journalist doesn’t think, he abuses language, while everything must be labeled, even if he doesn’t understand.
“Surely somebody must be in charge here, I’m going to blame the Liberals”. That’s not how language works. *That’s not how freedom works.* The only way to use that noun, that way, is if it’s a formal group with goals and actions. Well, there nothing keeping local politicians from being drunks like their constituents.*
*Liberalism is defined by reality within the realm of freedom, representation, fairness and reason. It does not declare exactly what all of that should be. Such hubris is not within it, it does not carry the logic stain of Marx. It can only be abused by human hubris. No matter what, we are fighting the imperfections of humanity. Liberalism does not pretend to fix any of that. It just says go to the doctor, or let’s sit down and figure out what’s the problem. Unlike communism, implicit to liberalism is that the nature of the world comes from the nature of the world. That’s why there’s no liberal engineering, but liberalism requires engineering.*
1970’s, French, from a translation in progress
No, that presumes Republicans are conservative.
They aren’t.
They don’t care about protecting institutions or traditions. They want to tear them down and reorder things as they see fit.
That’s regressive. It’s authoritarian. But it’s definitely not conservative.
Conservatism is about fewer people holding the reins of power. Trump is authoritarian which is pure conservatism.
Republicans are not conservative. They are radicals bent on tearing down the system. The only thing they are conserving is the racism parts.
Anytime one of them actually does decide to criticize him: “well you know, he was always a registered democrat…”
Oh so now that’s a problem to yall? Lol
Republicans aren’t conservatives anymore, they just call themselves that. They are right wing radicals
i guess irony is the only real tradition
Whats’all this yapping about? US had voted for the guy and you’re discussing whether he’s a republican or not?
That REALLY shows the stupidity of Americans.
A political party which is devoid of values, by definition cannot have conservative values.
Yeah it’s because they are not conservatives. They have a few similarities a but also some drastic difference.
For example actual consertive means no religion in government.
To understand the current right wing today it’s much better to say they are anti liberal. They are against democracy, they are pro theocracy, and they tend to not really have anything they support other than just being against anyone who is a liberal is for. They just say they like x so out platform is the opposite.
If you use the dictionary definition of conservative then no, Trump is not a real conservative.
Op seems to be making the argument that a real conservative is whatever Trump happens to be on any given day, as if conservativism is something flexible that changes based on the whims of one dementia-addled geriatric chronic liar. “No wars except oops a new forever war!” “Great new healthcare plan in 2 weeks except oops it’s never.” “The people don’t pay the tariffs, except oops we’re giving out tariff refund checks, except oops no we need that money for new wars we said we wouldn’t start.”
Op is your argument that modern conservativism is dead because it has no clear values? That its values change daily based on what a malignant narcissist tweeted at 4AM?
If you ever put support ratings that high it says enough about your actual numbers
Conservative policy has never been popular. When it was Reagan and Bush era conservatives they used hate and racism to get elected and winked and nodded at that hateful base just enough to keep them happy while cutting taxes and services and enriching corporations.
Trump is wildly popular because the base never wanted conservative policy. They wanted the other part that was always the sweetener – the bigotry and hate against the other.
Reminder that Joe was a Republican representative and pretty involved in the Clinton impeachment. And reminder that the Clinton impeachment was largely manufactured by the Republican House of Representatives (Gingrich in particular).
I think we can extend the quote that if conservatives cannot win via democracy they will abandon democracy in favor of conservatism to be that if they then have to choose between conservatism and power they will choose power.
New Conservatives are “Social Conservatives” only. The anti-woke brigade. The Jesus was too empathetic gang. The Haitians are eating the cats & dogs bbq boys. The Pope is weak on crime bros.
The “Let’s see how much we can ballon the deficit and how quickly” armchair economists. The schools are trans-ing our kids internet surgeons. The fraud & abuse only counts towards gov workers and social programs, not the executive branch and oligarchs, accountants…….
Yup.
“I’m not conservative, but I’m not MAGA” when he’s got 90% approval from conservatives, is bullshit and never let them forget it.
From what I can tell, the Republican platform is to give tax cuts to the rich so they can have sex with children.
What is a “real” conservative?
Conservatism is nothing more than an attempt to institutionalize bigotry, and enforce in-group vs other.
Nothing more.
Conservatism isn’t fiscal discipline. It’s never been about “family values”. It’s never been about keeping order through diplomacy and rational behavior, aka national security. And there’s nothing religious, especially nothing Christian, about Conservative policy or behavior.
Conservatism has always dug into the trash can of irrational fear to find the gems that can be used to divide us and distract us so that power may be seized.
That’s it.
Neither Trump or MAGA have ever been conservative. It’s just a cult of personality that will change its policy to whatever the leader’s demented brain thinks that day.
Conservatives are real good about starting wars….finishing them? “That’s hard”
Modern Conservatism is a hollow shell of a philosophy.
It’s only consistent principle is owning the libs
Massive increase in public debt. A new war to fast track tax payer revenue to arms manufacturers. Inflation increasing and economy slowing. Everyone else including their sinks are to blame. Dunning Kruger affect on full display. Seems pretty conservative to me.
It’s down to 68% last time I checked,
As for rather Trump is a real conservative? Well, he certainly ain’t no Buckley or Goldwater, let alone an Edmund Burke, He courts the Reagan crowd and has duped a lot of them, but I’m not even sure he fits that mold