Obviously it’s not to undermine the Allied soldiers of WW2, but we often forget how helpless the many people who resisted in occupied territories were, and how brave they had to be to face enemies who had absolutely no pity. Resistants often had little to no equipment, they could only find food from help or by stealing it, and worst of all, their entire community could face torture, deportation and death if their actions were discovered.
CUMHAWK_Schizopostin on
Also, fighting partisans was reportedly less preferable than fighting against the Red Army.
the_capibarin on
Sorry to say this, but the impact of the irregular forces off all kind got massively overblown in the years after the war itself. No partisan force is realistically capable of fighting a regular military with heavy equipment and an even heavier propensity to genocidal reprisals. They sure were one hell of a nuisance for the Germans, and tremendously brave on a personal level, but it was the regular allied forces that actually delivered victory, and it’s not a close contest.
Having a heroic resistance is just better as a nationalistic myth that suffering conventional military defeats and being forced to effectively disband, so it was the narrative that got pushed.
Also, if you were a civilian in a partisan area, you were in for one hell of a ride, and might end up either hating your heroic liberators way more than the occupying forces, depending on the region
Perfect_steps on
War isn’t clean on any side, that’s the uncomfortable truth.
Anxious_Big_8933 on
One thing we can be certain of, is the large number of Americans who sit around imagining themselves as partisans in occupied Europe during WW II. Like, wtf is this stupid meme?
AlbanianCatholic on
Post reminded me too much of the Kosovo war.
Frequently, KLA bands were reluctant to even attack Serbian forces knowing they’d immediately retaliate on Albanian villages.
mivohihito on
two weeks and a mountain of civilian blood later still unsolved
mivohihito on
two weeks and zero ammo resupply later
orbital_actual on
Mechanisms of control and repression so violent that other regimes would take note and try to replicates its results for years after the fact. Interestingly several of their more horrible concepts were taken and refined in Syria, so if you ever wanted to see what the evolution of their practices looks like, you unfortunately can. You can also see the cost of killing such a regime.
Herr_Etiq on
*’Murican: If i were in a nazi occupied country*
… who’s gonna tell him
CptKeyes123 on
I unfortunately can’t remember when it was, but Indy Neidelle’s WWII channel had an incident in the Balkans where partisans killed 10 german soldiers. The nazis responded by murdering every adult man in the area. even though the perpetrators had left the area.
So to recap, a bunch of undisciplined partisans killed some guys, and the nazis did an even worse crime much larger.
neo nazis will go “but the Allies committed war crimes too” when the nazis’ general response to war crimes was to take it as a personal challenge to do one or several more even worse.
GareththeJackal on
I hate how americans talk about WW2.
CleoCommunist on
Yeah no shit, people still did It.
I Watched a documentaty were they interviewed people about It.
They also said that they were very sad for the direction out country (Italy) took.
The partisans fought for the Freedom and many got tortured and killed.
After the war the americans interfered and the judges were still the ones from the fascist period, so they were less harsh with the fascists that ended up roaming the streets like nothing.
Also many partisans were put in trial, most of wich were communists oriented partisans(aka a big part of not the majority of the resistance).
4000~(i think) were put on trial and none of all the partisans Who Fought every got anything back.
The president of the senate btw said that the day of the liberation Is to commemorate partisans and the called of the Salo republic! The salo republic! The Fascist northern Italy under German control!
Truly a disgrace
oppai-police on
Only idiots who have never knew wars or real fear will have the absolute confidence in themselves that they will “rise up” and fight against an oppressor…if only they have weapons. If the enemy knows the population of a city is armed and ready to fight, that would make everyone in that city a legitimate target, this would includes women, children, elderly, the disabled, even those who do not wish to fight. And buddy, I have bad news for you. Also, brutal regimes do not fight fair, they will capture your families to smoke you out. If you tell me you can stand to see your whole family executed and still be a partisan, then yeah, go ahead.
MrFuFu179 on
Boads well for the people living in America.
acuddlebug on
Firearms
BoranijaZaRucak on
Partisan movementa across the Europe were quite similar and experienced same retaliation from occupying forces. Poland and Yugoslavia probably had the worst. Polish “Armia Krajowa” was relatively well organized, with good morale but pulverized by Germans and Soviets. Partisans in Yugoslavia were fighting against Axis, Chetniks and other domestic enemies.
But in any case, Axis had brutal responses.
France and Italy had it easy, but violence against civilians in France exploded after D-Day and resistance actions against Germans.
In Soviet Union partisans were usually forced to join Red Army. Most likely due to fear from Soviet officials that they will lose ideological influence.
In any case – Nazis were killing civilians as retaliation, publicly executing captured resistance members and used psychological warfare – they were leaving witnesses on purpose so they could spread horror stories.
MonkeKhan1998 on
It’s kind of a rule in history that life as a guerrilla in any conflict is *fucking miserable*.
There’s a line from Generation Kill when the Navy Corpsman chews out the Recon Marines he’s with, some pretty tough dudes as is, and compares them to the Iraqis they’re fighting; “These are fucking hard men, they’re sleeping in rags eating day old rice and bean. You ladies bitch if you don’t get an MRE poptart.”
sertroll on
A bunch of places here in Italy have memorials for times entire villages in the mountains were slaughtered by the Nazis as retaliation
Beat_Saber_Music on
I feel like many of the Germans commiting these reprisal atrocities wouldn’t have been blood thirsty, but more “time to fill the quota”
20 Comments
Obviously it’s not to undermine the Allied soldiers of WW2, but we often forget how helpless the many people who resisted in occupied territories were, and how brave they had to be to face enemies who had absolutely no pity. Resistants often had little to no equipment, they could only find food from help or by stealing it, and worst of all, their entire community could face torture, deportation and death if their actions were discovered.
Also, fighting partisans was reportedly less preferable than fighting against the Red Army.
Sorry to say this, but the impact of the irregular forces off all kind got massively overblown in the years after the war itself. No partisan force is realistically capable of fighting a regular military with heavy equipment and an even heavier propensity to genocidal reprisals. They sure were one hell of a nuisance for the Germans, and tremendously brave on a personal level, but it was the regular allied forces that actually delivered victory, and it’s not a close contest.
Having a heroic resistance is just better as a nationalistic myth that suffering conventional military defeats and being forced to effectively disband, so it was the narrative that got pushed.
Also, if you were a civilian in a partisan area, you were in for one hell of a ride, and might end up either hating your heroic liberators way more than the occupying forces, depending on the region
War isn’t clean on any side, that’s the uncomfortable truth.
One thing we can be certain of, is the large number of Americans who sit around imagining themselves as partisans in occupied Europe during WW II. Like, wtf is this stupid meme?
Post reminded me too much of the Kosovo war.
Frequently, KLA bands were reluctant to even attack Serbian forces knowing they’d immediately retaliate on Albanian villages.
two weeks and a mountain of civilian blood later still unsolved
two weeks and zero ammo resupply later
Mechanisms of control and repression so violent that other regimes would take note and try to replicates its results for years after the fact. Interestingly several of their more horrible concepts were taken and refined in Syria, so if you ever wanted to see what the evolution of their practices looks like, you unfortunately can. You can also see the cost of killing such a regime.
*’Murican: If i were in a nazi occupied country*
… who’s gonna tell him
I unfortunately can’t remember when it was, but Indy Neidelle’s WWII channel had an incident in the Balkans where partisans killed 10 german soldiers. The nazis responded by murdering every adult man in the area. even though the perpetrators had left the area.
So to recap, a bunch of undisciplined partisans killed some guys, and the nazis did an even worse crime much larger.
neo nazis will go “but the Allies committed war crimes too” when the nazis’ general response to war crimes was to take it as a personal challenge to do one or several more even worse.
I hate how americans talk about WW2.
Yeah no shit, people still did It.
I Watched a documentaty were they interviewed people about It.
They also said that they were very sad for the direction out country (Italy) took.
The partisans fought for the Freedom and many got tortured and killed.
After the war the americans interfered and the judges were still the ones from the fascist period, so they were less harsh with the fascists that ended up roaming the streets like nothing.
Also many partisans were put in trial, most of wich were communists oriented partisans(aka a big part of not the majority of the resistance).
4000~(i think) were put on trial and none of all the partisans Who Fought every got anything back.
The president of the senate btw said that the day of the liberation Is to commemorate partisans and the called of the Salo republic! The salo republic! The Fascist northern Italy under German control!
Truly a disgrace
Only idiots who have never knew wars or real fear will have the absolute confidence in themselves that they will “rise up” and fight against an oppressor…if only they have weapons. If the enemy knows the population of a city is armed and ready to fight, that would make everyone in that city a legitimate target, this would includes women, children, elderly, the disabled, even those who do not wish to fight. And buddy, I have bad news for you. Also, brutal regimes do not fight fair, they will capture your families to smoke you out. If you tell me you can stand to see your whole family executed and still be a partisan, then yeah, go ahead.
Boads well for the people living in America.
Firearms
Partisan movementa across the Europe were quite similar and experienced same retaliation from occupying forces. Poland and Yugoslavia probably had the worst. Polish “Armia Krajowa” was relatively well organized, with good morale but pulverized by Germans and Soviets. Partisans in Yugoslavia were fighting against Axis, Chetniks and other domestic enemies.
But in any case, Axis had brutal responses.
France and Italy had it easy, but violence against civilians in France exploded after D-Day and resistance actions against Germans.
In Soviet Union partisans were usually forced to join Red Army. Most likely due to fear from Soviet officials that they will lose ideological influence.
In any case – Nazis were killing civilians as retaliation, publicly executing captured resistance members and used psychological warfare – they were leaving witnesses on purpose so they could spread horror stories.
It’s kind of a rule in history that life as a guerrilla in any conflict is *fucking miserable*.
There’s a line from Generation Kill when the Navy Corpsman chews out the Recon Marines he’s with, some pretty tough dudes as is, and compares them to the Iraqis they’re fighting; “These are fucking hard men, they’re sleeping in rags eating day old rice and bean. You ladies bitch if you don’t get an MRE poptart.”
A bunch of places here in Italy have memorials for times entire villages in the mountains were slaughtered by the Nazis as retaliation
I feel like many of the Germans commiting these reprisal atrocities wouldn’t have been blood thirsty, but more “time to fill the quota”