Honestly I think Germany could have won at least until the spring offensive had they focused on taking Amiens which would allow them to encircle the BEF, maybe even later.
But yeah by the armistice Germany had lost, just because German armies were outside Germany doesn’t mean it didn’t lose and pretending otherwise is stupid. Sure allies didn’t occupy German land but all German allies were on the brink of defeat and Germany was significantly outnumbered
AwfulUsername123 on
The kaiserboo’s statement is also grammatically incorrect. It should be “if they *hadn’t been* backstabbed”.
Rathalos-487 on
Getting the UK involved crossing Belgium was in general a big mistake
BasedAustralhungary on
They could have maybe for softer conditions or maybe even harsher conditions depending of the overall war exhaust that was deeply affecting the morality of each part of the conflict, but that would just made a new treaty that most historians argue could be a bit softer or just very much harsher considering how the war changes time to time. If Germany manages to keep the line and create a stagnation the conditions would become more favorable to Germany than in our timeline, if the morality shock hits hard and the logistics collapse then the conditions would become even harsher to the point I can’t even imagine how messed up would Central Europa become. I.e. I expect Silesia being integrated in Czechia and Hungary managing to keep more land as an intention to create a more radical balance of power based on Hungary, Czechia, Germany and Yugoslavia. The mess would be incredible but ironically the ethnic tension would make the sequel of the Great War to delay, since Civil Wars would start in a lot of this states in that new order. I can’t suppose what could happen, but the reality is that Germany probably did the best thing It could do signing an armistice. Another option would be gamble and they were in no position to do so.
King_Crab_Sushi on
My brother in Christ WWI tanks weren’t even fast enough to have made it to Aachen by 1919
Chumlee1917 on
Is that you Adolf?
JG1313 on
Germans were continuously defeated and pushed back following the failed Ludendorff offensives in the spring.
They were out of reserves, civilians were starving in the rear. The entire nation was on the brink of collapse.
If they had refused to signed the armistice, their army would have been destroyed within few months, starting with the Lorraine offensive planned by Castelneau for mid November.
They would have been swarm of Renault FT, but that was the cherry on top.
Fluffy_Kitten13 on
Yeah nah bro, would’nt have happened before 1925 in the earliest.
WW1 was very different from WW2. You can’t just blitzkrieg your way to Berlin lmao.
asia_cat on
Not to mentiom how the population was starving at home. Turnip winter this that
Top_Divide6886 on
This is basically the stabbed-in-the-back myth that happened then too.
The generals knew they were out of men, food, and ammo, but the greater public didn’t. So when a peace was signed *before* Germany was occupied and razed it felt like bullshit. “We kept them off our soil for five years, why do we need to pay reparations!?!?”
I wonder if the treaty of Versailles would have been respected longer if WW1 went on and the Allies pushed into Germany. At least then “the Jewish-Catholic Social-Liberal conspirators” couldn’t be blamed for losing the war.
TerminalJammer on
We called that being stabbed in the front around these parts.
Cucumberneck on
Dont forget the good old “The jews and social democrats backstabbed us!”
_Dead_Man_ on
Germany was going to lose in the long ter.. Even if the spring offensive ended better for them, which it very well could have, even allies behind close doors think Germany might have won if it had. The issue is that the Entente was also in actual shambles after four years and really only America had the actual energy to invade because they were still kinda fresh. 4th year WW 1 was like watching to newly-minded cripples trying to stab eachother one more time while actively bleeding out.
So it’s a lot more nuanced, basically, as is everything. But the chances of them making it to Berlin like that were pretty low lmao.
Henry_Fleischer on
The politicians could have prevented the war from happening in the first place
loseniram on
thats too kind, that would be Berlin by the end of December.
The entire reason the ceasefire happened was because the frontline collapsed and they just barely halted the 100 days offensive. There was only 500k riflemen on the Germany frontline at that point and the Allies had 150k.
A late November assault into December would have completely collapsed the Frontlines and see the German army in complete retreat or destroyed.
RobinReborn on
The OG tankies.
ByronsLastStand on
Don’t forget the Whippets!
TheDwarvenGuy on
Keep in mind: German supply lines were fed by one(1) railroad that the entente had figured how to bomb non-stop with railroad artillery, collapsing literally the entire system. Ludendorf (the guy who invented the stab in the back theory) was literally having a nervous breakdown due to how bad he *knew* the situation was.
Unfortunately (or fortunately in the short term), the effects hadn’t hit the front lines yet, so when the German military command willingly entered surrender negotiations most of the soldiers didn’t even know they had already been losing the war. Thus, people like Ludendorf could rephrase their utter defeat as being some last minute upset by shadowy forces rather than being an utter defeat.
HG2321 on
The funny thing is that Erich Ludendorff, one of the progenitors of the “stab-in-the-back” myth, was the one who told the Kaiser he needed an armistice because he couldn’t guarantee that the front would be able to hold for more than a few hours.
Woden-Wod on
They could’ve won but god is on the side of the English and always has been
BaritBrit on
The stupidest of stupid myths, because they *were* defeated in the field. The German armies were broken and exhausted and were streaming back, losing huge amounts of ground on every front as they collapsed. For all that Ludendorff would later blame the politicians for German defeat, he himself claimed at the time that he could not guarantee that the front would hold for another *two hours*, let alone longer.
Just because the Allied armies hadn’t quite made it to the German border by the time the national surrender was signed doesn’t make that battlefield defeat any less total.
Taiga_Novah_Wren on
Germany when it has to solo the 2 other greatest European powers at once and help it’s ally defeat the third while also fighting in Italy and Romania:
The_Wispermen on
Better to be metaphorically (and fictionally) stabbed in the back by politicians then to be literally (and physically) stabbed in the back by Spartacus.
Iksandor on
Czechoslovak legion beating the shit out of Germany in Ukraine is funny hehe
Fluffinator44 on
Pedersen device, trench sweeper, and B.A.R. all go brrrr. Enough dakka achieved.
Illustrious-Low-7038 on
Not to mention German soldiers wouldve seen the entire world attacking them in the Trenches. The British already had the Canadians, New Zealanders, Australians, South Africans and Indians, the Americans were about to bring in Filipinos, the French already had Morroccans and Algerians and were bringing in Vietnamese, Thais and Polynesians and Japan imo couldve been persuaded to join in if thw war dragged on long enough.
26 Comments
Honestly I think Germany could have won at least until the spring offensive had they focused on taking Amiens which would allow them to encircle the BEF, maybe even later.
But yeah by the armistice Germany had lost, just because German armies were outside Germany doesn’t mean it didn’t lose and pretending otherwise is stupid. Sure allies didn’t occupy German land but all German allies were on the brink of defeat and Germany was significantly outnumbered
The kaiserboo’s statement is also grammatically incorrect. It should be “if they *hadn’t been* backstabbed”.
Getting the UK involved crossing Belgium was in general a big mistake
They could have maybe for softer conditions or maybe even harsher conditions depending of the overall war exhaust that was deeply affecting the morality of each part of the conflict, but that would just made a new treaty that most historians argue could be a bit softer or just very much harsher considering how the war changes time to time. If Germany manages to keep the line and create a stagnation the conditions would become more favorable to Germany than in our timeline, if the morality shock hits hard and the logistics collapse then the conditions would become even harsher to the point I can’t even imagine how messed up would Central Europa become. I.e. I expect Silesia being integrated in Czechia and Hungary managing to keep more land as an intention to create a more radical balance of power based on Hungary, Czechia, Germany and Yugoslavia. The mess would be incredible but ironically the ethnic tension would make the sequel of the Great War to delay, since Civil Wars would start in a lot of this states in that new order. I can’t suppose what could happen, but the reality is that Germany probably did the best thing It could do signing an armistice. Another option would be gamble and they were in no position to do so.
My brother in Christ WWI tanks weren’t even fast enough to have made it to Aachen by 1919
Is that you Adolf?
Germans were continuously defeated and pushed back following the failed Ludendorff offensives in the spring.
They were out of reserves, civilians were starving in the rear. The entire nation was on the brink of collapse.
If they had refused to signed the armistice, their army would have been destroyed within few months, starting with the Lorraine offensive planned by Castelneau for mid November.
They would have been swarm of Renault FT, but that was the cherry on top.
Yeah nah bro, would’nt have happened before 1925 in the earliest.
WW1 was very different from WW2. You can’t just blitzkrieg your way to Berlin lmao.
Not to mentiom how the population was starving at home. Turnip winter this that
This is basically the stabbed-in-the-back myth that happened then too.
The generals knew they were out of men, food, and ammo, but the greater public didn’t. So when a peace was signed *before* Germany was occupied and razed it felt like bullshit. “We kept them off our soil for five years, why do we need to pay reparations!?!?”
I wonder if the treaty of Versailles would have been respected longer if WW1 went on and the Allies pushed into Germany. At least then “the Jewish-Catholic Social-Liberal conspirators” couldn’t be blamed for losing the war.
We called that being stabbed in the front around these parts.
Dont forget the good old “The jews and social democrats backstabbed us!”
Germany was going to lose in the long ter.. Even if the spring offensive ended better for them, which it very well could have, even allies behind close doors think Germany might have won if it had. The issue is that the Entente was also in actual shambles after four years and really only America had the actual energy to invade because they were still kinda fresh. 4th year WW 1 was like watching to newly-minded cripples trying to stab eachother one more time while actively bleeding out.
So it’s a lot more nuanced, basically, as is everything. But the chances of them making it to Berlin like that were pretty low lmao.
The politicians could have prevented the war from happening in the first place
thats too kind, that would be Berlin by the end of December.
The entire reason the ceasefire happened was because the frontline collapsed and they just barely halted the 100 days offensive. There was only 500k riflemen on the Germany frontline at that point and the Allies had 150k.
A late November assault into December would have completely collapsed the Frontlines and see the German army in complete retreat or destroyed.
The OG tankies.
Don’t forget the Whippets!
Keep in mind: German supply lines were fed by one(1) railroad that the entente had figured how to bomb non-stop with railroad artillery, collapsing literally the entire system. Ludendorf (the guy who invented the stab in the back theory) was literally having a nervous breakdown due to how bad he *knew* the situation was.
Unfortunately (or fortunately in the short term), the effects hadn’t hit the front lines yet, so when the German military command willingly entered surrender negotiations most of the soldiers didn’t even know they had already been losing the war. Thus, people like Ludendorf could rephrase their utter defeat as being some last minute upset by shadowy forces rather than being an utter defeat.
The funny thing is that Erich Ludendorff, one of the progenitors of the “stab-in-the-back” myth, was the one who told the Kaiser he needed an armistice because he couldn’t guarantee that the front would be able to hold for more than a few hours.
They could’ve won but god is on the side of the English and always has been
The stupidest of stupid myths, because they *were* defeated in the field. The German armies were broken and exhausted and were streaming back, losing huge amounts of ground on every front as they collapsed. For all that Ludendorff would later blame the politicians for German defeat, he himself claimed at the time that he could not guarantee that the front would hold for another *two hours*, let alone longer.
Just because the Allied armies hadn’t quite made it to the German border by the time the national surrender was signed doesn’t make that battlefield defeat any less total.
Germany when it has to solo the 2 other greatest European powers at once and help it’s ally defeat the third while also fighting in Italy and Romania:
Better to be metaphorically (and fictionally) stabbed in the back by politicians then to be literally (and physically) stabbed in the back by Spartacus.
Czechoslovak legion beating the shit out of Germany in Ukraine is funny hehe
Pedersen device, trench sweeper, and B.A.R. all go brrrr. Enough dakka achieved.
Not to mention German soldiers wouldve seen the entire world attacking them in the Trenches. The British already had the Canadians, New Zealanders, Australians, South Africans and Indians, the Americans were about to bring in Filipinos, the French already had Morroccans and Algerians and were bringing in Vietnamese, Thais and Polynesians and Japan imo couldve been persuaded to join in if thw war dragged on long enough.