From what I gather, real life pitched battles in ancient times were kinda anti climactic. Supposedly it mostly involved lots of shoving and occasional thrusts through a gap. The goal being to break the enemy formation cause them to route. Its believed that most of the killing in a given battle took place during the retreat or encirclement.
And such battles could last for a very long time, like for hours.
So it kinda makes sense why Hollywood wouldnt go this route
FarJunket4543 on
Aren’t those movies? And isn’t one of them still unreleased?
LastEsotericist on
Bronze Age battles were a total mess though. What do you mean you ride your chariot near the battle, dismount and fight on foot? What do you mean the chariot arm is 60% of the army’s budget?
Divide92 on
Alexander was probably the most accurate hollywood movie in that regard.
Worth_Creme_4925 on
Everyone’s on enemy lock
meatatarian on
The Iliad and other sources on the Trojan War describe the battles that way. They weren’t organized battle lines for the most part, it was a story told of individual heros fighting one another in open fields, or one hero slaying many ordinary soldiers in valiant chariot rides, etc. I’m not saying the “real” battles weren’t organized, just that the ancient sources described the battles the same way our modern movies do.
SopwithTurtle on
To be fair, that’s also the source material for the Illiad and the Odyssey – they talk a lot about the individual heroic combat, not the phalanx/shield walls.
Apprehensive_Gur_302 on
Wait, does that mean that… 300 was historically accurate **😱**
Foreign_Writer_9932 on
Riiiight the “green dot savages” against my “red dot disciplined battalions”.
Xylit-No-Spazzolino on
You forgot the 15 enemy dots surrounding our dot hero, which is able to fight one dot at time meanwhile the other 14 dots are waiting for their turn
koontzim on
Someone haven’t watched The Last Kingdom (well sometimes)
dull_storyteller on
Ah ancient battles.
90% waiting for the supply chain to catch up, 10% hoping the guy in front of you doesn’t die.
DespondentEyes on
In media the battle always lasts until one side is completely obliterated or at the very least routed. That almost never happened. If even 10% of an army was gone, the battle was well and truly over. There was no need, nor opportunity, to completely slaughter an enemy short of an elaborate ambush (cfr Varus’ legions in Germania under Augustus). Again, the complete loss of an army like that was incredibly, incredibly rare (and therefore so overwhelming when it did happen. Rome NEVER again tried to capture Germania, instead opting to send Germanicus to recapture the lost eagle standards and call it a day)
TheBartolo on
In addition, if you read the Illiad, battles seem to be more of a series of duels. Probably for the wrong reasons, but that is quite faithful to the source
CavemanViking on
I mean they were both depending on who was doing the fighting
SulaimanWar on
Rome(2005-2007) my beloved. Also shoutout to Alatriste(2006) that I just watched recently for soldiers staying in formation
CosechaCrecido on
I’ve always wanted a movie about a single ancient battle unfolding in a semi-accurate and detailed real time way.
Kind of like the 1980s Waterloo movie. Feel like it would be amazing to watch.
Imagine the Battle of Zama or the Battle of Cannae put to film.
the_flying_armenian on
Odyssey??
The movie is not even out yet!
MileyMan1066 on
Not trying to shill for Troy, but, did we watch the same movie? Yes, Achilles is on some Avengers level shenanigans. But like, the big battle in front of the walls of Troy was a huge clash of armies where you could see the mass of each side push against each other. It looks like the top image.
[The Greeks get their shit rocked of course.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEDWpbmFY6o) But that’s well explained by the way the film sets up their bad tactics and Troy’s ability to bait them into a bad engagement beneath the walls and their deadly archers. Its a cool scene!
SpartanElitism on
Tbf Homer mainly speaks about duels that happened during the fights
Anka098 on
lord of the rings was good
FoldingLady on
It’s why I like Rome. They showed real Roman battle formations in the first season.
Dragonkingofthestars on
By this metric, 300 was pretty accurate… at first anyway
AlbertDerAlberne on
Except in Japan!
They even announced their name before going in for ther 1 on 1s.
Lolmanmagee on
300 did a good job at giving me the idea of a shield wall.
It did devolve into a regular fight eventually, but it was enough.
zildux on
Honestly highly doubt the lines didn’t break quickly after the fighting began in full
KoboldMan on
Say what you will about GOT, but what do we think of the battle of the bastards
Shaloka_Maloka on
Vikings started of with more realistic battles but over time they went with the usual Hollywood battles more and more often.
Responsible-View-804 on
Ironically the one movie I think of that shows fighting like this was 300
But then it goes into the total opposite issue where somehow the fight just becomes a rugby scrum.
Dudes formed up, got close, made stabs and backed up for hours.
It’s also how battles of hundreds lasted all day and wound up only having 20 ish people killed
duaneap on
Real life battles would look somewhat boring though. Just watching two massive teams of guys poking at each other with long sticks till one side gives and the others stab them in the back as they run away.
Plus the whole 1v1 fighting thing *is* how it goes down in The Iliad. It’s kind of all it is.
astroslostmadethis on
ones more entertaining for most people or they wouldn’t keep doing it.
>Honestly, probably easier to tell a bunch of actors/extras hey, just 1v1 out there instead of trying to replicate historical battles that need to be sequenced.
firestar32 on
Ngl, thought this was a midsection cut of Minnesota at first
acariux on
Troy movie actually had some decent formation fighting. I think Braveheart started this stupid “everyone does 1v1 with someone” thing and other movies just kept repeating it.
Low_Appeal_1484 on
I like battles like basketball: one-on-one and with the fewest missed shots.
34 Comments
From what I gather, real life pitched battles in ancient times were kinda anti climactic. Supposedly it mostly involved lots of shoving and occasional thrusts through a gap. The goal being to break the enemy formation cause them to route. Its believed that most of the killing in a given battle took place during the retreat or encirclement.
And such battles could last for a very long time, like for hours.
So it kinda makes sense why Hollywood wouldnt go this route
Aren’t those movies? And isn’t one of them still unreleased?
Bronze Age battles were a total mess though. What do you mean you ride your chariot near the battle, dismount and fight on foot? What do you mean the chariot arm is 60% of the army’s budget?
Alexander was probably the most accurate hollywood movie in that regard.
Everyone’s on enemy lock
The Iliad and other sources on the Trojan War describe the battles that way. They weren’t organized battle lines for the most part, it was a story told of individual heros fighting one another in open fields, or one hero slaying many ordinary soldiers in valiant chariot rides, etc. I’m not saying the “real” battles weren’t organized, just that the ancient sources described the battles the same way our modern movies do.
To be fair, that’s also the source material for the Illiad and the Odyssey – they talk a lot about the individual heroic combat, not the phalanx/shield walls.
Wait, does that mean that… 300 was historically accurate **😱**
Riiiight the “green dot savages” against my “red dot disciplined battalions”.
You forgot the 15 enemy dots surrounding our dot hero, which is able to fight one dot at time meanwhile the other 14 dots are waiting for their turn
Someone haven’t watched The Last Kingdom (well sometimes)
Ah ancient battles.
90% waiting for the supply chain to catch up, 10% hoping the guy in front of you doesn’t die.
In media the battle always lasts until one side is completely obliterated or at the very least routed. That almost never happened. If even 10% of an army was gone, the battle was well and truly over. There was no need, nor opportunity, to completely slaughter an enemy short of an elaborate ambush (cfr Varus’ legions in Germania under Augustus). Again, the complete loss of an army like that was incredibly, incredibly rare (and therefore so overwhelming when it did happen. Rome NEVER again tried to capture Germania, instead opting to send Germanicus to recapture the lost eagle standards and call it a day)
In addition, if you read the Illiad, battles seem to be more of a series of duels. Probably for the wrong reasons, but that is quite faithful to the source
I mean they were both depending on who was doing the fighting
Rome(2005-2007) my beloved. Also shoutout to Alatriste(2006) that I just watched recently for soldiers staying in formation
I’ve always wanted a movie about a single ancient battle unfolding in a semi-accurate and detailed real time way.
Kind of like the 1980s Waterloo movie. Feel like it would be amazing to watch.
Imagine the Battle of Zama or the Battle of Cannae put to film.
Odyssey??
The movie is not even out yet!
Not trying to shill for Troy, but, did we watch the same movie? Yes, Achilles is on some Avengers level shenanigans. But like, the big battle in front of the walls of Troy was a huge clash of armies where you could see the mass of each side push against each other. It looks like the top image.
[The Greeks get their shit rocked of course.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEDWpbmFY6o) But that’s well explained by the way the film sets up their bad tactics and Troy’s ability to bait them into a bad engagement beneath the walls and their deadly archers. Its a cool scene!
Tbf Homer mainly speaks about duels that happened during the fights
lord of the rings was good
It’s why I like Rome. They showed real Roman battle formations in the first season.
By this metric, 300 was pretty accurate… at first anyway
Except in Japan!
They even announced their name before going in for ther 1 on 1s.
300 did a good job at giving me the idea of a shield wall.
It did devolve into a regular fight eventually, but it was enough.
Honestly highly doubt the lines didn’t break quickly after the fighting began in full
Say what you will about GOT, but what do we think of the battle of the bastards
Vikings started of with more realistic battles but over time they went with the usual Hollywood battles more and more often.
Ironically the one movie I think of that shows fighting like this was 300
But then it goes into the total opposite issue where somehow the fight just becomes a rugby scrum.
Dudes formed up, got close, made stabs and backed up for hours.
It’s also how battles of hundreds lasted all day and wound up only having 20 ish people killed
Real life battles would look somewhat boring though. Just watching two massive teams of guys poking at each other with long sticks till one side gives and the others stab them in the back as they run away.
Plus the whole 1v1 fighting thing *is* how it goes down in The Iliad. It’s kind of all it is.
ones more entertaining for most people or they wouldn’t keep doing it.
>Honestly, probably easier to tell a bunch of actors/extras hey, just 1v1 out there instead of trying to replicate historical battles that need to be sequenced.
Ngl, thought this was a midsection cut of Minnesota at first
Troy movie actually had some decent formation fighting. I think Braveheart started this stupid “everyone does 1v1 with someone” thing and other movies just kept repeating it.
I like battles like basketball: one-on-one and with the fewest missed shots.