Germany’s plan to invade France through the Ardennes was so suicidally stupid that the French literally refused to believe it was happening. It worked perfectly.

    by GermanCCPBot

    49 Comments

    1. https://preview.redd.it/a0gc1i4r6f7g1.png?width=1232&format=png&auto=webp&s=ac7bd745ca324a057d84bdeee6ad222a890af97b

      The German invasion of France in 1940 succeeded because Hitler approved a plan so insane, so tactically idiotic, that French military leadership convinced themselves it was impossible and left the route virtually undefended.

      The Ardennes forest was considered impassable for large armored formations. The roads were narrow, winding, and completely unsuitable for tank columns. French military doctrine treated it as a natural barrier, difficult terrain that would channel any attack into predictable, defensible positions. They left it defended by second-rate divisions and reserve units because they were certain the real German attack would come through Belgium, just like WWI.

      The Germans decided to send *the entire main armored thrust* through the Ardennes anyway. Panzer divisions, support vehicles, supply trucks, all funneled into narrow forest roads in a massive traffic jam that stretched for miles. If the French had bombed those columns or sent forces to contest the passage, it would have been a catastrophic slaughter. Tanks trapped bumper-to-bumper on forest roads with no room to maneuver are sitting ducks.

      But the French command didn’t believe it was happening. When reconnaissance reported massive German columns moving through the Ardennes, French commanders dismissed it as a feint or a secondary attack. The real threat *must* be in Belgium, no one would be stupid enough to commit their main force to that forest nightmare. General Gamelin had positioned France’s best mobile divisions to counter the expected attack through Belgium, leaving the Ardennes sector thin.

      When German panzers emerged from the forest at Sedan on May 13, 1940, they faced demoralized reserve divisions with inadequate anti-tank weapons. The Germans broke through, crossed the Meuse River, and found themselves facing almost nothing. French strategic reserves were already committed to Belgium, racing to meet the “real” German attack. By the time French command realized the Ardennes thrust wasn’t a diversion, it *was* the main attack, German armor had already punched through and was racing toward the English Channel.

      The entire French defensive strategy collapsed because Hitler gambled on a plan so reckless that rational military planners assumed no one would actually attempt it. The traffic jam through the Ardennes should have been a disaster. Instead, it won Germany the war in the West in six weeks.

    2. catching your enemy off guard will always be super effective, even if the plan sounds insane.

    3. redditsucksass69765 on

      If the French hadn’t been so…..French. Imagine how different the world would be.

      So much technology came out if that war that we wouldn’t have today.

    4. Smart-Response9881 on

      Finding the right amount of stupid is critical for a successful military operation. Too stupid and it won’t work, too smart and the enemy will expect it.

    5. Counterpoint: France overvalued their static emplacements to the point of being blinded to the alternatives offered by modernized treaded vehicles. The Maginot Line was the definition of something built with winning the last war in mind.

    6. >On 16 May, Churchill flew to Paris […] and found the French in a state verging on paralysis. General Maurice Gamelin explained that the Germans had broken through on a 50 km front and had already advanced 60 km inward from Sedan. When Churchill asked about the strategic reserve, Gamelin replied that there was none. Churchill then inquired when and where Gamelin proposed to attack the flanks of the bulge. Gamelin replied with a hopeless shrug and the famous words: “Inferiority of numbers, inferiority of equipment, inferiority of method.”

      “So where was the fucking strategic reserve?”, you mask ask. Well to understand that you must first understand French war planning leading up to WW2.

      The French knew that, in case of war, the Germans would have to attack through Belgium to bypass the Maginot line (that was the whole point, duh). So, general Maurice Gamelin came up with the **Dyle plan**. As the name suggests, the best divisions of the French army would use prepared positions on the Dyle river line in Belgium and stop the German offensive dead in its tracks

      So, what went wrong? Well, in 1936, Belgium, after seeing that France did not oppose the remilitarization of the Rhineland, had the genius idea of declaring itself neutral, so French divisions would now have to rush into Belgium to reach the river before the Germans could cross it.

      Then in early 1940, German war plans for the invasion of Belgium and the Netherlands were leaked during the **comically stupid Mechelen incident**. Astonishingly, even though the Belgians themselves recovered the war plans, they still stubbornly refused to give up neutrality.

      For Gamelin, this was splendid news. Germany was doing a repeat of the Schlieffen Plan, only this time, attacking over a broader front in the Netherlands. To account for this, Gamelin altered his original Dyle plan with the **Breda variant**. Basically, he would take the 7th Army, which was supposed to serve as a powerful strategic reserve, and redeploy north to link up with the Dutch army at Breda. **What could go wrong?**

      Meanwhile, Hitler was busy throwing his original invasions plans in the trash and then was convinced by Manstein’s batshit insane plan of sending all panzer divisions through the Ardennes Forest. The invasion of the Netherlands would now only serve to lure the French army further north and encircle it.

      And the only reason this stupid reckless plan even worked was because all the stars were aligned… by fucking Maurice Gamelin. That idiot even ignored his own reconnaissance pilots when they told him German tank columns were slowly advancing through the Ardennes in a massive traffic jam. And of course, when the Germans finally emerged near Sedan, they brushed aside the few second-rate divisions in their path and behind them found… nothing.

      Thanks a lot, Gamelin! And he even has the nerve to blame the rank and file soldiers instead of his own stupidity.

      **We truly live in the cursed timeline.**

    7. The-Kurt-Russell on

      The French thought they were fighting WW1 again, they didn’t factor in the speed that German armor and air allowed them to punch through and move so quickly through small gaps of defense. Their army and defenses were nowhere near as mobile as Germany’s so were easily flanked and surrounded

    8. Russians did the same thing in 2022 and got their best troops destroyed by some Turkish drones and Ukrainians.

    9. diamondhanded_ape_ on

      This was also possible, because many german soldiers were high on Amphetamine (pervetine), which was distributed by the leaders and widely used within the army.
      Following that the tank driver could move forward night and day without any rest, so the french army could not follow up on them.

    10. That the French built the Maginot line also made this invasion thru the Ardennes look suicidal to the French.

    11. I know this photo is real, but I’m having an incredibly hard time seeing anything other than Kevin Spacey playing Hitler here.

    12. thedarkforest_theory on

      It’s also fair to point out that Germany stole several marches on the French due to the excessive use of meth in front line German forces (reference “Blitzed: Drugs in the Third Reich” by Norman Ohler).

    13. This seems more like a blunder on the French’s side for underestimating their opponents capabilities after they left a vulnerable point in their defenses, while not properly taking precautions to cover that vulnerable point because they thought it was less vulnerable than it truly was.

    14. The first world war was semi-static warfare, with new technology invented to create mobilized warfare.

      The second world war was that mobile warfare technology, but the french military minds had WWI stuck in their heads.

    15. For anyone interested ‘The Rest is History’ podcast recently did a few episodes on this and the weeks surrounding it. Interesting stuff and makes you realise just how things could have happened so differently so many different times on the flip of a coin!

    16. Laffepannekoek on

      Going through the Ardennes whas a wise move for the Germans. This way they didn’t have to use the Belgian roads.

    17. Thats really not true at all though.

      The main thrust through the Ardennes was ofc pretty risky but not remotely “suicidally stupid”. And not just because “if it works it aint stupid”.

      French High command literally indentified the Ardennes as a risk from the start, they were argubaly as suprised by the speed of the advance (in particular the Meuse crossings), as the location. Also ofc they bought the German ruse that the main attack was through Belgium.

      Also there wasnt a single plan without any significant risk anyway, considernig Germany knew it would certainly lose any long war of attrition even just against France and the British empire given the difference in resources.

      Edit:

      Arguable the biggest risk (and success) of the whole operation was becasue German generals (notable Guderian and Rommel) consistenly ignored halt orders or flat out refused to even communicate with German high command so that they could keep on pushing hard and fast without waiting for infantry to follow.

      Innsted of falling for reddit misinformation I can highly reccomend the WW2 mini series 10 days in Sedan.

      [Day One – Panzers Attack! – Ten Days in Sedan – WW2 Documentary](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2wo-EDCrAk)

    18. Didn’t they also say that about St. Nazaire? “The very fact that it’s regarded as impossible, is what makes it possible!”

    19. It also fed Hitler’s view of his own infallibility and lead him to taking personal absolute control of military decisions.

      Most ruinously russia, overruling military leaders set to seize oil areas around ukraine and winter there and sending them to moscow instead.  Not the only one either.

      Absolute leaders think they are infallible, surrounded by yes men, blaming others for any mistakes.  

    20. Interesting-Dream863 on

      This is akin to Hannibal crossing the Alps in winter or the marshlands later.

      Not stupid, just beyond the scope of military intelligence… the great oxymoron.

    21. Genius if it works. Madness if it doesn’t.

      There’s been a lot of military stories throughout history where one side does something beyond suicidally crazy, but because the other side never expects it in a million years they don’t prepare for it. Then it works and the defensive side gets completely screwed over.

      Sometimes taking a crazy gamble is a more than viable strategy. It’s not necessarily stupid. It’s taking a high risk with the potential of a huge payoff. If you always do what’s safe, predictable and expected then the enemy will predict you, as France believed they were doing. Inventiveness, new tactics and unpredictability have often won many battles. Even France has some history with that with Napoleon’s story arc.

      War itself is risky in all forms anyways and even luck and circumstance is always a major factor in many things. It’s nothing to judge that badly. Hitler did make more dumb moves later in the war, but this one paid off.

    22. HiddenMoney420 on

      Norman Ohler claims that the plan would only work if the Germans were able to keep their tanks running constantly for 3 days and 3 nights, which was thought impossible until Hitler’s close friend, Otto Ranke , brought up the idea of using meth to keep the soldiers awake, so they funneled 35 million doses to the front lines to make it work.

      As described in the first few minutes here: [https://youtu.be/SvKv7D4pBjE?si=v0YC5aLA6ukrUaWD](https://youtu.be/SvKv7D4pBjE?si=v0YC5aLA6ukrUaWD)

    23. Cold_Turnover_5592 on

      The Germans decided to send *the entire main armored thrust* through the Ardennes anyway. Panzer divisions, support vehicles, supply trucks, all funneled into narrow forest roads in a massive traffic jam that stretched for miles.

      Dang if Cyrus the Virus was a French General WW2 would play out different but the in irl the french did not put the bunny or in this case

      put a good solid defense and anti tank line near the ardennes DOWN!!!

      https://preview.redd.it/xiguvcu8if7g1.jpeg?width=888&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=235094eaf6cff1bf3c100d2a99f5536a30005085

    24. classic_gamer82 on

      It worked too perfectly. Believing it could work again, Germany moved through the Ardennes in preparation for Operation Wacht am Rhein in December, 1944. Things kinda turned out differently the second time around.

    25. Ill_Wolverine_6265 on

      FYI, the Belgians refused to allow the Maginot Line to be built along the Franco-Belgian border; otherwise, it would have extended all the way to Dunkirk. The Maginot Line was not captured by the Germans and only ceased fighting after the surrender in June 1940. Thanks, Belgians, Ardennes or not…🇨🇵😏

    26. I’ve visited the Maginot line where it was breached, and I don’t recall nothing “impassable” about the terrain. The guide explained that the French simply put too much hopes on their fortified line, but the fortifications had “gaps” in terms of artillery reach, which the Germans were smart to exploit. To think that the Germans were “stupid” is pure naivitity, they must have studied everything well in advance.

    27. ApartExperience5299 on

      The German tank crews were on meth going 3 days without sleep while the French troops were drinking wine.

    28. 161-Anarchia-420 on

      France not even taking a PEEK into that forest after getting that vital 9nfo4mstion is what wrote history lmao

    29. DullCartographer7609 on

      This is like the 10th post I’ve seen about Hitler’s military prowess. What’s going on today?

    30. Virtual-Biscotti-451 on

      In both world wars, the Germans did a great job predicting what the French would do at the start of the war

    31. OStO_Cartography on

      The French During World War I:

      “Merde! Ze Germans are invading through ze Ardennes! Zut alors!”

      The French During World War II:

      “Ze Germans are invading through ze Ardennes? Bah! Such nonsense you speak! Now, ah am off to mon chateau pour l’été! A-bientot!”

    32. The French were unprepared for a modern faced paced combined arms invasion anyway. They were stuck in Great War, defensive and immobile – like the Maginot Line. The military headquarters didn’t even have a telephone, depending on daily dispatches delivered by motorcycle couriers.

    33. This plan was actually proposed by General von Manstein who was wide been regarded as one of the most gifted German military planners.

      The Germans were in a position where they had to take big risks. To do nothing would risked economic strangulation. An attack through Belgium would clearly have faced strong Allied forces who would have been prepared for them. The rest of the front was strongly defended by the Maginot Line.

      It should not be a surprise that the operation did achieve surprise. The idea that armored forces could punch through a weak point and sweep behind defending forces leaving them isolated and impotent was a novel one. The Allied commanders were often elderly men who had fought in WW 1 and, conditioned to think that any new war would be fought similarly to the last one, lacked the imagination to consider other possibilities. Finally, the fog of war would have caused even accurate information to be discounted.

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