Its funny because im pretty sure that these ideas were not common sense before Sun Tzu made the Art of War
Artistic_Ear_664 on
It’s common knowledge because of this, it’s like the corps system and so on. Most brilliant leaders get beat by their own strategy.
PM-me-youre-PMs on
Disclaimer : I am exaggerating a bit for the joke and I do not believe our ancestors were any stupider than we are, and neither should you
Substantial-Sea-3672 on
If you read any military history you’ll find that in every war in history some of these rules weren’t followed.
Most importantly – war was not a profession for the vast majority of history. The man leading you into war is likely a noble who possibly never has seen warfare before. But he may be well read.
They also aren’t always true, and often are not in a vacuum.
If your enemy is weaker now, and will soon be stronger, but you don’t have your campaign supplies ready yet – can you actually follow both of those tenets?
Finally, for a solid example – Napoleon was notorious for constantly bothering The Directory for more shoes. This might seem like an obvious necessity for soldiers but they often weren’t available. So Napoleon, who needed more guns, more cannons, more gunpowder, more ammo, more men, more horses… always asked for more shoes first.
How did Napoleon take over Italy for revolutionary France? By marching faster than anyone else ever had. How did he do it? With more shoes.
11minspider on
Because the mostly idiotic young nobles reading this were more likely to digest the basics of strategy if it was being taught by The Legendary Strategist Sun Tzu, and not That Decent General From a While Back Sun Tzu.
HistorianEntire311 on
Yes But most of the bases had to come from one place
YeetMeIntoKSpace on
This is no different than zero or algebra or calculus being a significant discovery. It’s obvious to us now because we’re brought up with it from birth; in a society that’s not entirely founded on those ideas, it becomes a gigantic leap forward.
TameTheAuroch on
Well it’s the basics… Literally warfare 101. Many generals (even in modern times) didn’t follow some (or sometimes none) of even these simple rules, ending in disaster. It is what it is.
doug1003 on
I mean it was.the beginning of history, at that time, common sense itself was brand new
SamsaraKama on
Well, first, **yes, they were**. We have a lot of instances of wars and fights that went to total shit because of basic crap like this.
Second, it’s funny because the Art of War can be applied to other things like debates and relationships with other people. A lot of people neglect basic information.
And yeah. Sun Tzu tends to *lead in* with simple, easy and digestable information, but then expands on them. These aren’t isolated concepts half the time. He introduces them, and then explores each topic.
greg_mca on
At the end of the day, someone has to be the first person to write it. And good thing they did that too
FlyingFreest on
Everything we take for granted now had to be figured out and researched by someone in the past so later people could build on their initial discoveries.
Also remember: The Art of War was written for nobles who had no actual combat experience and were the ancient Chinese version of trustfund kids who knew nothing. That’s why it includes so much common sense level advice as well as stuff like pay and feed your soldiers.
BaronGreywatch on
Cherry picked quotes are not the best in the book.
Blumpkin_Mustache on
>On the Origin of Species by Charles Darwin, the greatest biologist of all time
>Look inside
>Being good at acquiring food is better for survival and reproduction than not being good at acquiring food
Why were 19th century people impressed by this, were they stupid?
lordkhuzdul on
Art of War is not intended for historians or seasoned generals. It is pretty much “War 101” for spoiled princelings who barely know which end of the spear goes into the enemy, but who were still expected to lead armies.
If you want more comprehensive and higher level war advice? Read Clausewitz.
17 Comments
Long story short. Yes
Its funny because im pretty sure that these ideas were not common sense before Sun Tzu made the Art of War
It’s common knowledge because of this, it’s like the corps system and so on. Most brilliant leaders get beat by their own strategy.
Disclaimer : I am exaggerating a bit for the joke and I do not believe our ancestors were any stupider than we are, and neither should you
If you read any military history you’ll find that in every war in history some of these rules weren’t followed.
Most importantly – war was not a profession for the vast majority of history. The man leading you into war is likely a noble who possibly never has seen warfare before. But he may be well read.
They also aren’t always true, and often are not in a vacuum.
If your enemy is weaker now, and will soon be stronger, but you don’t have your campaign supplies ready yet – can you actually follow both of those tenets?
Finally, for a solid example – Napoleon was notorious for constantly bothering The Directory for more shoes. This might seem like an obvious necessity for soldiers but they often weren’t available. So Napoleon, who needed more guns, more cannons, more gunpowder, more ammo, more men, more horses… always asked for more shoes first.
How did Napoleon take over Italy for revolutionary France? By marching faster than anyone else ever had. How did he do it? With more shoes.
Because the mostly idiotic young nobles reading this were more likely to digest the basics of strategy if it was being taught by The Legendary Strategist Sun Tzu, and not That Decent General From a While Back Sun Tzu.
Yes But most of the bases had to come from one place
This is no different than zero or algebra or calculus being a significant discovery. It’s obvious to us now because we’re brought up with it from birth; in a society that’s not entirely founded on those ideas, it becomes a gigantic leap forward.
Well it’s the basics… Literally warfare 101. Many generals (even in modern times) didn’t follow some (or sometimes none) of even these simple rules, ending in disaster. It is what it is.
I mean it was.the beginning of history, at that time, common sense itself was brand new
Well, first, **yes, they were**. We have a lot of instances of wars and fights that went to total shit because of basic crap like this.
Second, it’s funny because the Art of War can be applied to other things like debates and relationships with other people. A lot of people neglect basic information.
And yeah. Sun Tzu tends to *lead in* with simple, easy and digestable information, but then expands on them. These aren’t isolated concepts half the time. He introduces them, and then explores each topic.
At the end of the day, someone has to be the first person to write it. And good thing they did that too
Everything we take for granted now had to be figured out and researched by someone in the past so later people could build on their initial discoveries.
Also remember: The Art of War was written for nobles who had no actual combat experience and were the ancient Chinese version of trustfund kids who knew nothing. That’s why it includes so much common sense level advice as well as stuff like pay and feed your soldiers.
Cherry picked quotes are not the best in the book.
>On the Origin of Species by Charles Darwin, the greatest biologist of all time
>Look inside
>Being good at acquiring food is better for survival and reproduction than not being good at acquiring food
Why were 19th century people impressed by this, were they stupid?
Art of War is not intended for historians or seasoned generals. It is pretty much “War 101” for spoiled princelings who barely know which end of the spear goes into the enemy, but who were still expected to lead armies.
If you want more comprehensive and higher level war advice? Read Clausewitz.
People were, are and will be morons.